Toilet Chemicals or Bio Wash Tabs?

I'm sure this topic has been done to death, and I have used the "search" facility which provided somewhat conflicting advice on previous posts.  Also most of the previous discussion I have found seems to be over a year old as well, so I hope that I am not boring you to death bringing it up again.

I am interested to hear if people are using the "chemical" approach from the likes of Elsan, Thetford etc in both green and the old formaldehyde versions or if they are using bio washing products, and if so in what form.  Also what is working well for you in the flush water?  I am motivated more by what works well rather than the cost, but if there is a product that is cheaper than the chemicals and also works well them so much the better,

Tinca

Hi there,

For the last two years all we have used is the cheapest "Bio" laundry capsules or tablets we can find.  Two tablets (or one sachet) chucked into the cassette after emptying and rinsing keeps things fresh for up to three days even in hot weather.

We also use Formil Bio Liquid concentrate (from Lidl) in the flush tank.

I noticed that there was a slight build-up of "grey-stuff" on the rubber seal when I performed annual maintenance on the toilet last month but this only took a couple of minutes to wipe/rinse away.

With regard to the waste-tank we pour about a quarter of a bottle of Tesco's concentrated Orange Cordial into the sink after we have drained the tank.  Don't ask me how, but it definitely keeps the tank "sweet".   

Hope this answers your question.  

Best regards,
 

Hi Tinca, I asked this question when we bought our Clubman, Ian (Dutto) answered and I took his advice using the bio etc, I can honestly say that in all the times no matter what the weather we have never had a problem, and the plus is that if your on a site that is uses a septic tank you can only dump bio waste into the cdp.As any thing else kills the bacteria needed for the tank to work. Hope this helps...Algy

If formaldehyde, as used in many of the blue chemicals, breaks down waste matter, how come Damian Hirst uses it as a preservative in his art work (if you remember his sheep). I have no wish to preserve the waste in my loo cassette.

Its all in the concentration of the formaldehyde used.

Hi there,

Formaldehyde is nasty stuff:

In view of its widespread use, toxicity and volatility, exposure to formaldehyde is a significant consideration for human health.  In 2011, the US [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] described formaldehyde as "[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]".

On the other hand:

A biological detergent is a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that contains [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] harvested from micro-organisms such as bacteria adapted to live in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].



Biological detergents clean in the same way as non-biological ones with additional effects from the enzymes, whose purpose is to break down protein, …….

I guess that is why they work so well in warm weather.   

Here's the latest project I built to use on our land in France where we intend to stay a few months later on in the year.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's a Composting Toilet that doesn't even use bio-tablets, just a handful of sawdust!     

Best regards,
  




References:
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Hi Tinca,
Probably the thing to remember is that 'top' and 'bottom' have to be compatible.        

If you use bio in one of it's forms in the cassette, then you really should use a weaker bio or conditioner in the flush tank.

Some people use Milton in the flush tank to help alleviate that black fungal/bacterial growth, but then that kills the enzymes in the cassette, so you may as well use a proprietary additive. You pays your money.....

We choose to flush the flush tank regularly.

Derek

Hi Dutto, bear in mind I am not the sharpest knife in the box   so would you explain in simple terms what you use and how in the loo? Do you use the bio instead of loo blue or as a keep fresh when not in use? Sounds fascinating. Thanks  

Just read your post again and I think it makes sense  now   

John,

Basically (as Derek advises when using bio products) we use bio laundry products in both the cassette tank and the flush tank so that they are compatible.

We generally use Formil from Lidl as they are consistently cheaper than other brands but in October last year we discovered that Tesco were selling bio-tablets (solid powdery stuff) really cheap so we bought some of those; and they worked perfectly with the Formil bio liquid that we put in the flush tank.

By the way, it's not all to do with "economy".  Often in Holland, Germany and France the camping sites won't let you discharge "toilet chemicals" into their emptying systems.

Many years ago I was living on a site in Dorset and was told that I had to leave because the local Environment Agency was shutting the site down due to  high levels of pollution from the site's Klargester Sewage Treatment system.  I had a two month contract to complete and other sites were shut for the winter so I took a look at his system and procedures.

It turned out that there were two problems:
1.  After cleaning the swimming pool he dumped chlorine-rich water into his waste water system.
2.  He only had one Chemical Toilet Point on site and as a result some lazier visitors emptied their waste down ordinary toilets.

Both of these actions killed off the bugs that were supposed to be treating the sites waste water.  The owner acted, the discharge water improved, the Environment Agency withdrew the closure order and I got a two months stay for free.
But that's why they insist on bio products in the toilets nowadays.  
Hope this clarifies things.  

Best regards,
  
Ian

PS
Over the years it has cost me to discover that the person who was "not the sharpest knife in the drawer" always won at cards.    

Brillaint, thanks Dutto  

I am not that good at cards either   

Many thanks to all who have replied A wealth of information to help me and it looks like a compatible bio strategy for both cassette and flush tank is a good way to go from both an operational as well as an environmental perspective..........and cheaper to boot   

Tinca

You don't mention what van you have. If the toilet is still under Thetford warranty I would stick to their recommended additives till it isn't.

Peter

Hi there,

I agree with Peter on the warranty bit.  (Though how Thetford would ever find out …. ?)

Not to worry, they actually do a "Green" version.  The difference between the two Thetford products being:

Aqua Kem Green is a toilet fluid with biological action, is environmental conscious, can be emptied in a septic tank (Test ISO 11734) and is awarded with Milieukeur and der Blaue Engel (Dutch and German Environmental quality label). Aqua Kem Green lasts appr. 4 days with average use and only freezes below -20 degrees Celsius. Aqua Kem Blue is our best selling and known product and has a more powerful performance, therefore it lasts 4 to 5 days with average use. It freezes below -5 degrees Celsius. Next to that also the perfume varies, AKB is pine scented and AKG citrus.

In other words, the "Green" version performs more or less like a bio-laundry product …..   
……. but I think it's a tad more expensive and not as easily obtained!    

Best regards,
  

Reference:
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PS

I'm not sure what concentration is required on the Aqua Kem Green to get the -20 degrees performance.

With some chemicals the freezing point of the mixture is a straight line (e.g. methanol) which depends on percentage of each product whereas with other chemicals (e.g. mono-ethylene glycol) the freezing point has a variable eutectic.

E.G.

Water has a freezing point of 0 degrees.

Methanol has a freezing point of -98 degrees so the freezing point of water/methanol mixtures are:
100%:0% = 0 degrees.
50%:50% = -49 degrees.
0%:100% = -98 degrees

Mono-ethylene glycol has a freezing point of -13 degrees and the freezing point of water/MEG mixtures are:
100%:0% = 0 degrees.
40%:60% = -49 degrees. (eutectic)
0%:100% = -13 degrees.
(With a water/glycol mixture a "mush" forms as the temperature drops.  This happens until it reaches a point where it will finally go solid and expand.  This is why it is better to have some anti-freeze in your car or van even if it isn't at the proper 60:40 mix.)
Regardless of the above, I do know is that at -20 degrees I don't want to be living in "Petal"!      

This all sounds a very logical idea. Could someone please tell me how much liquid Formil to put in the flush tank please.  Thanks!

Hi there,

I put in a "cap-full" (there's a measuring cap on the top of the bottle) every other time I re-fill the tank.  (The reason for this is that I tend to "top-up" the tank rather than wait for the tank to be empty.)

I also make sure that it has time to mix before it is used.

Hope this helps.   

Best regards,
 

Same here, about a capful with every 4pt milk bottle full of water.

Us nomadic types can afford to be a bit frugal with the pre-charge since driving fluidises the contents of the cassette quite nicely. My argument is also that the more you use the loo the more fresh enzymes you introduce with the flush water.

It might be worth noting that if you intend to be static, it could be useful to increase the pre-charge somewhat to overcome the smelly 'solids above the waterline' syndrome.         

And on that note, since evening meals are shortly being served, I will leave you to digest the contents.   

Derek

We used the Aqua Chem green for a while and did not find it at all environmentally friendly from an odour point of view so went back to good old Elsan which smells 'lovely'.    
If I can get Swmbo off the 'I am just trying to save money' syndrome I will try your bio ideas   

Jaytee wrote:We used the Aqua Chem green for a while and did not find it at all environmentally friendly from an odour point of view so went back to good old Elsan which smells 'lovely'.    
If I can get Swmbo off the 'I am just trying to save money' syndrome I will try your bio ideas   

Hello??   

Bio-tablets are way cheaper; and anyway, what's the matter with saving money?      

The term "High Maintenance" springs to mind!      

How else could you afford to buy her that two-carat solitaire diamond ring she wants?    

Or even that bunch of flowers that you gave her only last week?    

Oh, please ignore the last sentence!  If SWMBO thinks the smell of Elsan toilet fluid is "lovely" there's no point in buying her flowers!      

Best regards,
 

Thanks for the advice Dutto    

The new Elsan blue is nice and fragrant   

Have used Bio liquid for about 3 years now in the loo without any problems. Having a separate flush tank I use Sterilising Fluid dilution in the water.
Both products are Supermarket Own Brands.

Also put their own brand orange juice in the waste tank as well to keep that smelling sweet as well.

Never likely to use anything else again.

Hi must admit I have used blue liquid then switched to green about 7 years ago.However after reading the conversations on here I switched over to Bio liquid tablets and I can honestly say "No Problems" tesco,lidl,asda,aldi, the only difference is the scent ,and price.I find the liquid tablets great to store and use,and usually buy what ever box is best value at the time of purchase.Thanks are given to the best advice I recieved from contributers on this forum.

I trialled bio detergent liquid last year with excellent results. I started putting some into the cassette with pink flush in the flush tank. Then I found it better to put a very small amount in the cassette and more bio in the flush tank - less than a capful per 4 litres - and that was even better. I noticed particularly that the cassette empties more cleanly and the "slippiness" of the flush water keeps the bowl cleaner. I do use Elsan Blue about once a fortnight as a disinfectant and we use cheap pine scented disinfectant for wiping around loo and basin when cassette is emptied.

Have followed this and similar threads with interest, and once my bottles I inherited with my motorhome have been used up I will be switching to bio products. One thing I'm confused about....if I'm using bio products where do I empty the waste... into the CDP or  into a toilet? (which might get me strange looks). 

Thx L

Some loos in Europe don't take any chemicals down them, which is one of the reasons we swopped over to Bio years ago.

You can empty your toilet waste down any where toilet waste is disposed off, even your own toilet at home.
Very handy if arriving back from a trip and the cassette isn't quite empty & clean!