Air top Suspension failure

I noticed that one of the gauges was reading low so topped it up but found that it had leaked away again. Did some searching and found it mentioned in a few threads as a problem with the bellows being chaffed due to incorrect fitting by A/S.
Checked mine and sure enough the bolts were fitted the wrong way round.
I have contacted A/S but as it is well outside of warranty (2011) I don't expect they will do anything about it other than offer to repair it.
Any idea as to how much it will cost to repair?

As this was a known problem from as long ago as 2012, why weren't owners contacted for rectification?

I assume that Air Tops were not fitted as standard to the Warwick when manufactured. If, however, they were, then ask AS to rectify. Not a guarantee matter - straightforward negligence.

Alternatively, if an after-fit, did you own the AS when the Air Tops were fitted? If so, it's the liability of the fitters for having incorrectly fitted the bolts. Time is not relevant. Take it back to them.

Alternatively, if you didn't own the vehicle when the Air Tops were fitted, can you find out from the dealer or previous owner who fitted the Air Tops?
Cymro

They are a standard fit to the Warwick Duo. I am the second owner.

I await a reply from the A/S service department.

I have supplied photographs and you can see where it has been chaffing on the failed unit.

I have reduced the pressure of the other unit to about 0.7 bar but it looks likely that that will also be damaged if I leave it under inflated. Any ideas.

Ian

Even with the bolts the right way round if the van is used with less that the recommended pressure, the bellows will be damaged. You would have to prove that the van has never been operated in that way to have any redress on anyone...........

The pressure was set at 2 bar. This is what I normally have it set at. I had a previous MH with air suspension and that was the same.
I don't know that you could ever prove it was never run under inflated.
My concern now is that having reduced the pressure in the bellows that has not failed it could cause it to be damaged as well.

Not sure I agree with that analysis, Peter. If the bolts were fitted incorrectly such that they would inevitably chafe on the rubber bellows, then even if the owner allowed the bellows to run at less than the prescribed pressures that does not affect the primary cause, but merely exacerbated it. The negligence which caused the failure was that of the installer.
Cymro

I'm speaking second hand as I have never had air rides myself but as you can see below there is only a tiny difference in dimension between the bolt head and the nut.  This bolt is fitted the correct way and the bellow has still been damaged by under inflation.

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Had the same problem . One had deflated in Spain this year and too get home ALKO recommended deflating the other to .7 bar. Arranged with AS to replace the deflated on, but they found the other was knackered. Always ran at 1.8 bar, sometimes slightly more , and bolts were the right way round. Difficult to prove. Cost was around £350. Now part of my pre trip check. Always check before moving, and always carry a bicycle pump !!

Peter Brown wrote:I'm speaking second hand as I have never had air rides myself but as you can see below there is only a tiny difference in dimension between the bolt head and the nut.  This bolt is fitted the correct way and the bellow has still been damaged by under inflation.

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I'd call that a design fault, that flange should have studs rather than bolts.

Frank

The top mounting plate shown on the Al-Ko site is completely different. Its no wonder that there are failures with the one fitted by A/S. I'm just surprised that there aren't more reported.
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With the bolts fitted the wrong way round there is very little clearance. There is clearly more clearance in your photograph. As boxerman says if it still occurs then it is a design fault with the mounting plate used by A/S.
I'll let you know what A/S reply to my email.

Ian

Agree with Frank. A very poor design.
All air bag installations I have experience with on HGV and PCV have domed headed setscrews.

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Some even have tapered heads.
When the air bag is deflated it should not sit on the bolts.
Should there not be an internal bump stop which prevents the air bag being 'squashed' when deflated?
Poor, poor, poor.

PB

Our 2014 model Duo has domed-head setscrews fitted. Even with this set-up, one of the bellows is showing a small rub mark on one side. I have been running my outfit at 1.5 bar, because that is what the supplying dealer said was the right pressure to use. Obviously, more pressure equals a higher ride and more clearance, but what a poor design!

I have looked everywhere to try and find information about what pressure to use. I didn't get any paper work for the Air Top when I bought the van second hand.

All I have been able to find out is that you can get up to an additional 50mm of height and you could use different pressures to level out a lop sided van due to loading.

Ian

I had the same problem from my supplier. The handover was a bit vague, the guy really did not know much about it. Finally they came up with a figure of 1.5 bar, but much depended on how you felt the ride was. When I visited AS to have them replaced (running at 1.5 bar) they recommended 1.8 bar, so anything between 1.8 and 2.0 seems to be the norm. However it really depends on how you feel the van is behaving, but less than 1.8 is maybe a little too low. Just my opinion. After being hit with a £350 bill, I always check before moving off. Hope this helps.
Regards

I had a look at some installation photos and it looks as though the culprit is the mounting plate bolts.
Peter's photo shows that the mounting plate is just not wide enough.

PB

I have been routing through all the paperwork that the dealer gave me when I bought the MH and found the original Al-Ko Air Top Manual and installation instructions.

The optimal approximate value of 1.8 to 2.5 bar is recommended, according to load.

Working minimum pressure of 1.5 bar up to a maximum of 3.0 bar.

I have been in contact with A/S and am waiting to hear back from them.

Ian

Ours ,Warwick XL 2014 , has domed head set screws facing down. Cant seem to get photo on. Used to have them at 1.8 with  rear tyre at 5. But found it very harsh so now have them at 1.3 with tyres at 4.5 and it rides much better. Sales was pretty hopeless on hand over and did,nt really know where to set them.

I have exactly the same problem!

Bought a low mileage 2012 Dorset (Symbol with "bells & whistles" - marketed by Marquess Motorhomes) which had factory fitted Airtop suspension.
Asked seller about Air tops and his reply was that he'd never bothered with it (!).  I noted at the time that gauges were reading zero and thought I'd investigate later.

Foolish me!!  When i eventually did get around to looking at it some considerable time later I discovered that the system wouldn't hold pressure and it didn't take an engineer to discover the splits in the bellows both sides caused by the bolts chafing and "yes" they're inserted the wrong way round with the bolt inserted from above and coming within mils of the bellows. 

I feel that as I'm not the original owner and I've been slow in addressing the problem I can't go for AS over the matter although i agree with earlier posters that it's a poor workmanship from them really.  Because the van also comes with a habitation Air-con unit on the roof and a microwave fitted at eye-level (neither of which I use!!) there's a lot of weight high up and I'm conscious that the handling probably isn't as good as it would be with the additional suspension.  So I'm faced with a bill of some £400 plus from my local garage - the bellows alone are over £200 each I'm told - the price of German technology I guess!!!

Terry

This is all very interesting, we have a Sussex BB which has just suffered a second puncture due to chaffing of the top bolt on the bellows. We bought the van in June 2015 with 14000 miles on the clock, within 4 months the near side bellows had a puncture. This was repaired by the dealer under MB&G warranty @ 16870 miles, we are now 10 months and 4500 miles on and the replacement bellows have now been punctured @ 21996 miles. The photo that Peter put on looks exactly like my bellows, both sides. We were told @ the handover on purchase to run @ 1.8 bar, and this is what it was signed off by the fitter during the build. We have run it @ 2 bar in order to try to gain more clearance. We have never overloaded the van. Now awaiting opinion of A/S and quote for replacement. However if replaced, are replacements of a different design? Or would it be wiser to look for an alternative make, as other are available for the x250 chassis. I don't wish to be replacing bellows every 5000 miles.

This is certainly a design problem. The bolts it appears to have been changed , as in the photo, but wether this solves the problem, I guess time will tell. My feeling is the AS should offer to change the bolts to the new design FOC, or at least provide the  bolts for us to arrange the fitting. The difficulty is that it is really impossible to prove that you ( or we!) are to blame . I run mine at 1.8 bar, on the instruction from AS, but I guess 2 bar is not a problem. As I said, now part of my pre drive check, and also carry a bicycle pump with me , just in case!!

I see the photo with the dome screws fitted . Can anyone tell me the size of these bolts, what M #. May as well try and fit myself, one at a time !

Have just returned from A/S having had my Air Top repaired under warranty.  They used the new dome bolts fitted the correct way round. Very happy with the result and great customer service.

Ian

Glad to hear that you have had your air top repaired under warranty by A/S, would you be as good as to pm me as I have a question or two. I have a problem with my dealer who is trying to blame A/S as a reason for not replacing under warranty an air top less than 12 months old. Cheerrs.

Infared wrote:Have just returned from A/S having had my Air Top repaired under warranty.  They used the new dome bolts fitted the correct way round. Very happy with the result and great customer service.

Ian

I have just had a look under the van at the Air Top and what I said above is wrong. (It was raining yesterday so didn't look!)

The new bellows units are a different design completely. No bolt heads to rub the bellows will post a Photograph.

Ian

Don't want to have a Photobucket account so here's a link to what the new unit as fitted by A/S looks like.
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